The roles of OTR and OTA: Professional and Personal

 In this heartwarming episode, Gina and Ryan, a husband-and-wife team, open up about their lives as parents of three kids while running a thriving Occupational Therapy practice. They share their insights into the intricate dance of managing their roles as co-founders, Occupational Therapist (OTR), and Occupational Therapy Assistant (OTA), all while maintaining a harmonious family life. Tune in to uncover the secrets behind their successful juggling act and the joys they find in both their family and professional pursuits. 

Transcript

Ryan 0:19

Hi, welcome to animals and the aquatic. So T I'm Ryan. And I'm Gina. And today we are doing a bit of a cohost podcast for the first time in a little while. We like to go ahead. Am. Do our co-host episodes whenever we can. And this day we are going to touch on some of our professional roles in our business as OT and OTA. And then kind of break that down for you. What that might look like in the personal side of things. When you work with your husband or you work with your wife and how that kind of all plays out in the day to day, because we know that, there may be some curiosity there between professional roles and, you know, fulfilling the role of the OTR or the OTA, and then the personal side of things of just, working together and how we make it all work. When we are incorporating our unique practice settings and our unique skillsets into our. Business. So we're excited to get started with this topic today. And we'd love to hear from you. And your experiences in, working either with family members or working closely with, OTR and OTA settings. So let's kick it off with the professional side of things. Yeah. So codas are typically regarded as the intervention is right. The. other than the academic entry point. You look at, OTRs as being responsible for the evaluations and the treatment plan, as well as discharge. It's not to say that. We get all the boring administrative stuff. On top of, being interventionists yourselves don't don't sell yourself short. but bottom line is I get all of the fun and not as much as, of the pain. But paperwork is my favorite pastime activity. We'll get to that in the personal section. But professionally, our roles as OTR and OTA. Work really well together in our business. And we found some really good ways of putting those two roles to work for us. And the first one I think we can touch on is the evaluation process. So we do a lot of evaluations. In home. typically when a family reaches out to us, we try to de-conflict with our schedule, and, Says set a day and a time to actually go to their home in. Meet with them, discuss some of their concerns. And one of the reasons that we really liked doing this is that it gives us a. An authentic view of, uh, the child in there. In a comfortable setting. And how we can see their occupational performance day to day in the home. And, that's very valuable for. helping us to, guide that the treatment plan. Yeah, I think it gives us a chance to see the natural environment. It gets us chance to see family relationships or sibling relations. And we found that when we are able to go together, We have a unique opportunity to go ahead. And one person can start working with the parents. And if we have assessment data, Then my role as the OTR would be to be going over the assessment data. And scoring results with the parents. So we're already coming in with a little bit of information and then we're putting that together with our clinical reasoning. So while I might be. Going through that assessment data, I'm going to allow Ryan to have time. To be building rapport and starting to take his clinical observations of the child. Building rapport and clinical observations is not as much fun sounding as leading a stuffed animal parade through. client's house. Yeah. Being in the home and seeing, the type of toys that the kid usually likes to play with and finding a bit about them and asking questions and getting them to just play in. The space that they normally play in. it's a great opportunity to find out what makes the kiddo tick. And, that can certainly give some insight into planning. When we're planning our sessions in the future, I can draw on that then. help determine what some of the motivations are. So as we're coming into the home and you know, we're introducing ourselves, this gives us an opportunity to really also build some rapport with the family. So they get to know both of us right off. The bat. And one thing that I found in different settings that I've worked in is whoever meets the family first. Often is the person that they kind of bond with. And so when I was in a role as director of therapy services, I did a lot of intake screenings. With clients and when it was time to assign them to their provider in the clinic, A lot of times that was a little bit more difficult for the family to make that transition. So we've taken that knowledge and that experience that I've had. And we really do prioritize going out to do evaluations together. Not only is it nice to be able to do that divide and conquer with one person interviewing the parents and providing information about OT services while the other person is. Playing with the child, getting clinical observations and seeing what the environment is like, but it also allows the family to meet both of us on equal footing, right from the beginning. Yeah. And that gives versatility, to our scheduling later on down the line as well. Like if there's, kid that works particularly well with either one of us. It gives us a little bit of additional flexibility. Yeah. And I think that kind of first impression is really huge. And so it gives us a chance to come present a United front, talk about our philosophy. It. It's always nice having that backup person. If, the child's a little bit slow to warm up to one of us, they'll often. The other person will have a little bit of a different take or a little bit of a different style. we have found that some of the clients are drawn really quickly to Ryan. And, sometimes there may be a little bit slower and if I have a little bit of a different tempo, maybe they come to me first or I might present a different activity. And also because we are in the home. Sometimes we have siblings that are, engaging in games and everything during this evaluation process. And also having two of us there allows us, if we need to redirect a sibling, there is somebody else there to do that. So through that evaluation process, we really work really closely. In that face-to-face meeting. And our process is really to gather some clinical assessment data through something like the sensory profile or the Brown's executive function scales prior to meeting the child. From the family. And then look at that clinical data and decide what type of activity do we want to bring based on what we're seeing in that profile. Then once we get there, we're going to introduce ourselves, take a little while most of the clients that we see. The children take a little bit of time to kind of warm up to us. And I always want to ask the family, do they know why we're here? Do they know who we are? Do they know why we're here? So if we need to tell them a little bit about who we are or why we're here. And then as the child warms up to us, then that gives us that opportunity then to split out with one person, talking to the parent and gathering information and the other person. Looking at the child. And. It also helps keep us, I think, both on time because we have someone else to, yeah. I mean the extra set of eyes and. I may notice something that you don't and likewise. And sometimes that's just a matter of physically where we are in the room. And Hey, did you see this or did you see that. Other times it's. Perspective. Other times, we just pick up on different things. And having two sets of eyes in an evaluation, I think is, invaluable. So as we wrap up with the family, then obviously we're getting back in the car together. And even if we're going, from one evaluation to another or to another treatment session, We now have this great opportunity to start discussing like right there, where it's fresh in our minds. What did you see? What did I see? Did you hear the parents say this or that? All right. What are we thinking? As far as a plan of care? What. Tapes of interventions might be most appropriate. Do you think we would see this person incorporating hippotherapy? Do you think aquatic therapy might be a good match? No, maybe nature-based would be a good fit. And so we can hash it out right then and there. And that gives us a great opportunity to provide. Feedback to the family pretty quickly. As I'm yay. Go OTR, writing the formal evaluation. And so that does fall to me. Then I'm going to come home and take all of that information, synthesize it, write it up into a formal evaluation. And if Ryan is going to be the direct service treatment provider, then him and I will discuss what those goals are going to be, making sure that we both feel those goals are realistic and deliverable. And then we'll send that to the parent for them to review before we finalize it. Yeah, and I think, if we get a sense of what some of the goals may be while we're onsite at the evaluation, we can even bring them up there with the parent. You. I think that's the other benefit of having two of us and doing it in the home because, uh, we have access to really discuss with, not just through observation, but also through discussing discussion with the parents. What their concerns and things that they're noticing. Right. Because I dunno, I mean, even in just normal sessions, you'll get, the reason that they came in for services was social anxiety, but the kid comes in and is bubbly and happy and engaging, and you're just not seeing. What the primary complaints are. and it's important to, to. Get that feedback. I think. Yeah. And. Our evaluation process is definitely working well for us right now. It gives us both an opportunity to take our role as OTR and OTA and put them to use and really provide a comprehensive evaluation. That really is very holistic. We get to see. You know, parents' point of view, the child's point of view, the natural environment, and then pull that together with some standardized data. And we feel that does provide a really comprehensive assessment and highlights what we can do when we work together as a team. Now as we move from the evaluation into the treatment phase. Depending on what we've determined might be the best fit for this client. Whether it's going to be, Ryan's client or my client. Or like a lot of our families, they may work with one of us for a period of time and then transition to a different setting. Within our private practice. So, you know, they might work with me for a couple of months and then transitioned to work with Ryan for a couple of months. And again, because. We're husband and wife. We lived together our business together. That transition is really smooth because we're already used to discussing goals and going over what that client's plan of care is. Did anything need to be changed? So once we start to see the client in the case, if Ryan is the treatment provider, as the OTA, Then he's, providing the sessions and documenting. And when it comes to reviewing documentation, signing off on notes. Yeah. I was just thinking I was a little lost in thought I was, but., Clients that we have that have received OT services or are currently receiving OT services. One of the first things that I think of, especially if they've been a. A long-term client. with the other OT is, I'd love to reach out to them and find out what strategies are working. What can I do to reinforce, those strategies? And, collaboration, cause at the end of the day, it's all about, a straight line to helping the kid. And, the great thing about, us working together is that, I have access to. Another therapist, Right. Uh, pretty much anytime I need it. And, OTRs or one of your, one of the roles is as a mentor. And, you've definitely. Uh, been that for me when I need it. And I know occasionally I'll suggest an idea that maybe is something that you hadn't thought of for a, just a for fraud, a fresh set of eyes. So I know it is reciprocal, but, it's just, it's great to not have to craft an email and, Dino to somebody that I don't know. when instead I can just, Turn to you and explain like, Hey, I'm seeing this. I think it could be, X, Y, or Z. What do you think? And to just have that immediate feedback and, from your experience. Yeah. And the more we know the clients together, whether that is right from the evaluation process or through the treatment. process and supervision visits. It's really nice because we basically, our families are getting two therapists for one. Because we are coming back, we're discussing. I'm discussing my clients with Ryan as well to say like, oh, you've seen. Johnny before. And Hey, what do you think about this activity? Or, this is what Johnny is doing now. Do you remember, when this was a really big challenge. And so it gives us some perspective too. When they're, moving and changing from one setting to another to look at progress as well. And so. Uh, I just want to circle back around to kind of the nuts and bolts of the documentation piece. And. How we're handling that. Yeah, I was trying to avoid documentation. We use an electronic medical record. And. So after we do the, I'm not sure. what do you want me to. Exactly. Talk about. So you're physically signing the notes when I'm done writing it. So we have a sliding scale. System. Where the performance. of our client was in terms of each goal. And Meets expectations. or met goal as expected. and so there's a baseline and then depending on what we are observing or how they did during the session, we'll adjust that. And then, basically right. At the level of assistance they needed and, how. How they performed in that goal? and then towards the bottom, there's basically a signature block where a genome. Review my note. And then she will actually sign with a stylist. that she reviewed it. Yeah. So the nice thing about that opportunity is. Whether he's writing his notes and, you know, it was at the end of the day. And he was like, oh, this is what I saw. This is the way I'm wording it. I am be like, oh yeah, that sounds good. or, maybe you want to add this in. And then when it comes to reviewing it, we've already kind of discussed it. I can look over, make sure it accurately describes what he described as far as the treatment session. And go ahead and sign off on that. And it's like that next layer in the cake or the next layer and the lasagna, as far as the. Going through that working together process from. His technical skills and then me looking over it and reviewing it and. That opportunity to do it. Right then and there. And not have to come back again in other clinical settings, working with other codas and I'm being like, oh, are you done with your notes? Okay. I got to check through the system to see which notes that you've completed, but I don't know which notes you've completed. Yeah, I can just kind of come over to you and say, Hey, here's the note. Can you look at it and sign it, please? I'm just over here chuckling a little bit to myself, because I think one of the other benefits with this is that. When it comes to note writing, I know, and I'm, I'm positive. I'm not alone in this, but, as a new word practitioner, I tend to be very verbose with my notes. I tend to document everything and I think part of that is. for example, if something worked or there was some type of response that might be linked to. let's say like a sensory challenge. I want to know that in the future. I want to remember that. And I want to remember, what happens so that I can carry that lesson over. And then, so I think I have this kind of internal fear of like, if I don't document it, I'm going to forget, and I'm not going to. Apply that lesson learned into future sessions. but. having access to, your notes and seeing, as we're discussing clients, being able to see the way that you document has definitely helped me to really streamline that. Okay. What happened? what is the main kind of meat and potatoes of, this goal for the session? Like it doesn't have to be a five sentence paragraph. It can be two sentences. It can be one sentence. but just the, the crux of how the child performed in the context of that goal for the day. Yeah, we've really learned a lot about documentation. Over the course of time, particularly in unique settings where you're incorporating animals or aquatics and what auditability is. So if you were to be audited by a third-party payer, we are private pay. We are not in network. With any insurance companies, but we do provide superbills when requested. So we need to maintain auditable documentation and through learning that process, we've really seen that. The focus is on the goals, right. The outcome. And so that's one of the reasons why we use the goal attainment scaling system. That Ryan was talking about. And so. W a as a clinician, it helps me be very focused. On the goals and the outcomes we're trying to achieve, because when I solely did soap notes, although I did reflect on the goals, particularly in my or objective statements, They weren't as forefront in my mind. Whereas when I'm doing goal attainment, scaling as my primary form of clinical or medical documentation, it really. You know exactly like what you're working on every single day, because you're going to document on it. Whereas with the soap note format, you're telling a story about your treatment session. But it wasn't as tied to goals. And I think it was a little bit easier to get. Often the weeds about how the session went. And maybe the clinical reasoning behind that rather than just strictly tying it to the goals. So we do that, but then we also provide a parent communication log. Every week that goes to the families. So we have both a clinical documentation piece and then, like a parent friendly. feedback form that we're providing every week. So, you know, from the clinical side of things. Yeah. Ryan does his documentation. I sign off on it. and that way. That process can run pretty smoothly because. We're sort of doing it in real time often. He's documenting right after sessions. And then I'm going ahead going to go ahead and sign off on that. So we're done with that. And those sort of compliance things that come up when it's an OTR and an OTA working together, whether that's in a clinic or a private practice, like we are. Those are all things that you really have to be aware of and whatever your state. Guidelines are for OTR and OTA practice. Yeah. Sorry. I was just thinking of another benefit of, as I said, I can be verbose with my, Note writing. It's nothing more frustrating than when something happens during a session that I feel like is really important. But it doesn't apply to any of the goals, you know? Where they make. progress in something, but it's not related to any of their goal. And living with you and, and sitting next to you on the couch while I'm writing my goals or writing my notes rather. You've helped me numerous times to translate those observations that I've had into how they may apply to the goals. And it may be a way that I hadn't considered before. But then also you mentioned the parent communication log, and those can be really good place for us to, acknowledge things that happened during the session that were victories. They were successes. but they just may not relate to the goals. And so they're not necessarily appropriate to document in, in their. EMR. Yeah, I think that's one of the. Good things. I think there's a lot of good things and I think our families get a lot of benefits over the parent communication log and. They actually take me longer to fill out than my clinical notes do, because I'm thinking about, okay, how do I write it in a pair of friendly terms? How do I take. My clinical observations and translate into something that's useful. And I think we've both been working really hard on giving the family. One thing. To focus on or answer each week because it's very easy to give five suggestions for something and know that they're never going to implement them. And they're never going to give me feedback, but if I give just one thing in my parent communication log, then the next week I can. Not give any suggestions, but ask a question. Yeah. Did you do it and how did it, how did it work out? Yeah. So typically we'll provide either an activity or suggest some type of, environmental modification or adaptation. that may be helpful for the child to meet their goal. if it's incorporated into their daily routine. other times we'll ask a question. maybe we saw something during the session that, sparked an idea in us and we want to gather some more information before we, we make a recommendation. And so. we'll also use that to ask questions to the parents. to try to get some additional feedback. Yeah. So I think that probably covers most of our documentation flow. And I would say the last, who knew that we could talk about documentation for so long? I did. I'm an OTA professor. Of course I can. I have a whole lecture on it, but this is not that. I think probably the last big thing that impacts us working together from a professional standpoint really is supervision. Yeah and again, looking at your own state practice laws is the most important thing when it comes to supervision. And so for us, we need to have onsite supervision. As well as general supervision. And so for onsite supervision. it's nice. Cause I get a chance to come and see the families, they're often like, oh, hi, how's it going? Cause they haven't seen me in a week or so. And it gives me just a chance again, to check in. Now sometimes I have an opportunity to be going ahead and, I'm filling out the supervision log for that week when I'm there, I'm filling out any performance review information. While I'm there and it gives me an opportunity really, to step back because I'm not treating. I'm there as a supervisor. And so I get to kind of look at the whole picture when I'm there. I also get to be an extra hands on deck. So a lot of times that's, nice for Ryan is to be able to have an extra, extra set of hands in place. So whenever we're having a new client having a first session, we make sure that I can come in for a supervision visit and then just following our state. Practice act regarding frequency of supervision as far as onsite in general supervision. Yeah. I'm pausing for a minute to. To mull it over. we're not talking about personal yet, but we are both very but, it is nice. It does require, and I guess with personal, we'll get into that a little bit, but it does require a bit of additional planning and, additional financial commitment in terms of childcare. But I think. I'm grateful to have you as a supervisor. Yeah. You're really, Wealth of knowledge and, if you weren't a joy to be around for me that I wouldn't have marriage. You. I think that's probably a good segue into the blending of like professional and personal, because in a supervisory role, right. That's a very professional role. And to be. Supervising your husband or your wife in that situation, right? You have to maintain your professional persona essentially. To do that job and to provide constructive, helpful feedback. And for us, it's really important because this is our business. And we need to be at the top of our game. So being able to give and take feedback in a professional role. Is part of the process, but we also recognize that we have a personal relationship together and, Ryan was just touching on a. There's logistics involved there's are children involved. And, I think this is probably a good time just to jump into maybe some of that personal side of things, of what it's like working with your. Spouse or owning a business together. And you know how you could maybe work with family members, because think when you work with aquatics or with animals, there's just, there's a lot more involved than just getting up and going to work at the clinic and coming home. And whether that's, feeding the horses at home. If you're working with horses and you got horses at home, like somebody's got to feed them and chances are, that's going to be your family. whether they're officially on your payroll or not. And so there may be certain things that you need done with the horses or the pool, cared for in a certain way that you have to communicate. To your spouse or to your kids, because that's still part of that. professional side of what you're providing. And so, even if you're maybe not in the same role that we are as OTR and OTA is still, I think a lot of times when you are in a more unique setting, family does get involved in ways that maybe aren't the same when you're just working. And, if we want to reflect back, anciently. If we want to go into the vault here. a million years ago. When I was at, a center and I was incorporating hippotherapy Brian volunteered. And was a sidewalker on occasion. Yep. And. I mucked stalls for awhile. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think there was a lot of. You're looking way back when, as far as family members being involved, you weren't involved professionally, but you were involved. In just supporting that part of my career. Yeah, well, And it's always funny because when I tell people that. We work together there. They always give me a sideways look and they're like, how do you work with your white? Like, Don't you guys want to just strangle each other and, but no, it's not like that at all. Like I, I definitely, so for me, it's knowing when I'm out of my depth, if there's something that I'm like, all right, I don't know the answer to this. I have absolutely no problem turning to you and asking the question and. Likewise, Aye. There's been plenty of times where you turned to me and said, okay, I'm working with so-and-so today. what do you think? What do you think would be a good. idea and we can kind of brainstorm together. I think it really helps to fight the burnout. And that isolation that can come with being in using hippotherapy or aquatics where you might be the only therapist or the only OT at a pool, or the only OT at a therapeutic riding center. And like you have nobody to. Bounce ideas off of. But we have that built in like, We were just like, Hey, we're having lunch. And I got to go treat later this afternoon. Like, what do you think? Yeah. And I think that's the part that I love about having students. because it's just a fresh set of eyes, you know? And, And I dunno so many times I look at, our practice settings and I think back to when I was in school and I was like, man, when I graduate, like, I initially intended to go work in a sniff, or I pictured myself in geriatrics, which was really funny because, Something like 80. To 90% of my classmates all said pediatrics in that first semester. And by the end of the pediatric semester, They were. Nope. Uh, not doing that. and, but I was like, man, I kind of liked it. And, yeah, you had a really good pediatric placement too. Yeah. But you know, having, having that fresh set of eyes. Right. Because I think, I do think that we can. It's not necessarily jaded, but we kind of get into our routines and we get into, this is the way that we do things and this is what this client is capable of. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and, and so you can become kind of belt fed that way where, you've just kind of one track and, having a fresh set of eyes, because I don't see your clients, at the same frequency as you. And so. Even though I'm familiar with some of them and I've worked with some of them. And so I have an idea of what they're like and what their interests are. And what their, Goals are. I can sometimes offer a little bit of outside the box insight and vice-versa. Yeah, and I mean, We pretty much. Live eat and breathe. OT. I think it probably to, okay. It takes up enough time that our daughter who is six, it has now started to come up with interventions and ideas. Oh, I have a crude idea, mommy. or she's created a game one day. She came down with a game that she had made with like poor kids. Yeah. They haven't, they have no chance at all whatsoever. she came down with a game she's like, oh, I think this would be a great game for your clients. And she had cut up pieces of paper and matched like colored. That's the thing is we, we have an ode, we have an intervention closet and our children love to rate it. And. You know, Making breakfast and turn around and they're like, Hey, what's this and that. They're pulling out like a sensory bin with a. Sander race or it's like, oh no, no, no. The bag of pompoms. But our kids also get the benefit of like, we have what we call the tiny house, which is really kind of like a very small clinic. so it's got a swing and a trampoline and a therapy ball and, you know, pretend, play stuff. And then upstairs. is kind of across between our homeschool space and more fine motor, art types of stuff. So. They get the benefit. I think of it too, but they just they're immersed in it because. We'll be discussing sensory concepts at breakfast or reflex integration at lunch or. Aquatic and hippotherapy techniques at dinner, or it's just, I don't. sometimes we have to stop ourselves and be like, okay, we're not. Let's not talk OT. Yeah. But, but it's nice. When you're you come across something or you hear about something that you're really excited about. and I think that's, one of the other things is, any of the crazy ideas that pop into my head that I'm like, Hey, this would be a real, like, I want to do a program. For. I dunno. Th th the fly fishing one that I really wanted to get started and. But I was able to talk it out with you and you're like, yeah, I think you got something there. it's just, I think a matter of dialing in the right demographic and, but. Don't want to go down that rabbit hole, but it's nice. Some podcast. But, yeah, but it's, it's nice to when I, when I have these ideas or these, These things that can kind of stir up the passion for the profession in me. To have somebody to share that with and talk about it with, yeah. I, when I think. Supporting one another is really important. If we have an interest area that we want to get more continuing education and, or one of us is going to conference, like we're there to support one another and say like, yeah, I really think you should take that continuing education course or go to that conference. and that, again, that built in support system with somebody who really gets it. if you're a horse person, you can talk horses all day long. And we certainly can talk OT all day long. Although our continuing ed budget is probably bonkers for what it should be. And I think that's maybe in the, a, we can put that in the deficit column. Have a working with your spouse. That it's hard to say no to each other. When we know we're really passionate about learning about something and, Yeah. I guess a continuing ed as always money well spent. Yeah, I think. Again, it just being a very immersive experience. I would say. And. We've been trying to kind of come up with some workflows too. Allow us to put the hat on and take the hat off, I think a little bit. And so we've implemented our Monday swimming meetings are swimming, business meetings. And so I guess, as a husband wife team, that's something that's been working really well. Is that. The morning, we take the kids to childcare, drop them off and we get usually a couple of hours of, Peace and quiet and where we can really, focus on the business and discuss either troubleshoot. Some of the issues that we're dealing with or talk about visions that we may have. About where we could go or what we could do. if we wanted to run like a short-term program. So we wanted to run like an eight week. Enrichment program. That's a good time for us to hash it out and discuss it. Yeah. And it gives us a real clear way of we know that we're meeting, we know that we're going to have kind of accountability. So like, what are you going to do? What am I going to do? Who needs to do what. As far as whether that's, running an ad or answering potential clients back or putting together information. We have that time to hash it out and anybody who has small, young children know that, as soon as you get into kind of a conversation, that's taking your focus away from them often, they're clambering about you with a mommy, daddy, whatever that they need to connect with you and they need your attention. And so we found that. We're recording this podcast at 10 30 at night. And so this is not a great time for us to be doing a business meeting. We're both pretty tired. Ryan worked as a lifeguard this morning at five o'clock in the morning. And I've seen clients today. So, you know, we're, we're both pretty tired by this point in the day. So we found that after getting the kids to bed was not a good time to do a business meeting. We just felt tired. Grumpy about it. And it wasn't productive. So our swimming meetings are very relaxing. There are a chance for us to, to really, you know, connect and, and I would say that there's actually engaged. Like how many. Businesses where they're like, Hey, you were going to have a company zoom meeting tonight. And it's like, oh God, no. I have people that I know that were, you know The complaint about that. And, but it's like the most OT of meetings we could come up with because there's like the sensory aspect of the water. there's a relaxation. It's oh, I can move and I can get my sensory needs. Matt and I can brainstorm and we can like, Then we can go sit in the sauna for a little bit. So, from a personal point of view, it's a great way to have business meetings and it really sets our week off on like on a good start, because then we have our plan for the week. And then we know that we're. We're catching back up. So I'm not exactly sure how we're going to adjust this when I start school. But we'll figure it out and move it to Tuesday. So Gina is much more scheduled. I, and I would say talking about, Per personal and professional. Like we know each other in ways that nobody else knows us. And I know that she is the organized one. She likes charts. And I, you know, uh, I'm definitely a much more fly by the seat of my pants type guy. Although I, I do recognize, the value and importance of lists and being organized and all that. But, You were definitely, much better at that. So I will usually defer to you with, with things like that. Pattern of life. So, you know, we know, for example, when business meetings are going to be the most productive for the two of us in and we have that. As a benefit that we can work that out and, and discuss it. And Find something that works for both of us. Yeah, it doesn't have to be. Yeah. During, during the day or in an office and. That is a great benefit. I think probably the one thing that you touched on, but skimmed over was the childcare aspect. And when you work with your spouse and you have children together, Anytime you want to do anything together professionally, you need to find childcare. And I think. I'll just kind of speak as to put the mom hat on. That's probably been one of the most stressful things for me. Of all is finding reliable childcare. Because I feel immense pressure to provide for our clients. If I have a scheduled session and. Now my child has a cold or a fever, and it's like, you can't have a babysitter come. When your kid is sick. And so then it would mean like not going and doing the sessions and I'm sure other people experience this too. when their child is sick and just not being able to find childcare, but whenever we need to do something together, so that can be supervision visits. Like we talked about our evaluations, it could be our business meetings, like anything that we need to do together. We need to find childcare. And we know we have our primary babysitter. We have a backup babysitter. We have, Support. From those situations, but, Our primary babysitter is away on vacation in Florida right now. And so, you know, getting a secondary and an. It's just to me, that is a huge stressor, as opposed to if you and your partner work at different businesses or, you know, diff. You have different employers, you may be able to work out your childcare differently, but I would also say on the flip side is we own our own business. So we can be really flexible in how we schedule our sessions to de-conflict them as much as possible. In that. You know, we may not, we're not going to schedule treatment at the same time. And then that does allow for supervision visits. It does allow for consultation. It does allow for. in some cases, filling in, depending on the client. especially for like our nature based sessions at the park. Sometimes we can fill in for one another. or if they're interested in one of the other settings that we have. Yeah. So I think those are all probably. Part of that our physical space of working together, we have a office in our basement. And this year we. Got real desks. And we still haven't got real office chairs, but we have real desks. And we just need a wide enough space where we can both sit in front of the camera for podcasting purposes. Yes. I'm going to sort that out. Yes. But Brian made me an excellent backdrop this year, too. Again, that part of that like supportive thing. So he was able to make a really cool backdrop. So, if you see any of our YouTube videos, You will see the really nice, very natural backdrop that he made. And it was just a, really, a really nice. Just trust me. Like, if you trust me, let me do it. And I was like, okay, fine. and I've gotten a lot of compliments about the background. And so, that was a little project that he did for me, that was really meaningful. And. Even if I'm just sitting here at my desk working and he's just, he's right beside me, or, he's working and I'm hanging out here doing something on my laptop. not only do we work together, not only do we own the business and all that, like our desks are literally. I don't know, two feet apart. So, we spend a lot of quality time together. I would say. and I think that fits pretty much with the vision that we had for our family. Is that we're a homeschooling family. So not only do we spend a lot of time with each other, but we spend a lot of time with our kids. And then, because they're not, they're not going off to school. So, we're home together. We're home with them but it gives us a mince flexibility in picking a random Wednesday and being like, oh, let's go over to Crayola factory or let's go swimming or take a hike. \But the flip side of that is. You know, being an entrepreneur, owning your own business is very challenging. It's it's not, it's not for the faint of heart. It's not, it's really about how much struggle can you take is, well, I think you, you have a lot more experience there than I do, you know, that's the, the entrepreneurship. it's definitely an area where you've had kind of the ups and downs a lot more. And so sometimes I feel like when I'm getting stressed, overwhelmed, anxious about it, you can say like, Hey, it's just, this is just. Yeah, it's. It's part, part and parcel. Running your own business. I. I think it boils down to grit and, typically, uh, when you're running a small business, you're not really going to see any profit for the first two years. That's just fact of life. if you do great. but. You shouldn't count on it. and I think most small businesses get, Breely get to be profitable by about year five is statistically. At last I heard. Well, and I think. to me, that's always a bit of a failing of our education system for clinicians is that we get no. Zero zip zilch, like business. Private practice, training, entrepreneurship training, and a lot of OTs do want to go. Into something maybe a little bit different than clinical practice or, even just adding in some nature based sessions or some animal assisted therapy or aquatic therapy outside of your full-time job. There, there hasn't been a, a lot of resources. You're not coming out of school. With, yeah. even at just a very, very basic. Understanding of how to do it on your own. Well, and again, I don't think anybody gets into this profession if they're not passionate about it in one way or another. and that may be. You may just want to get into it and work in a S in a sniff for, in a sensory clinic or, any of the traditional clinical settings. You may want to go to work for somebody else. And there. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if you feel a strong drive to explore something that is maybe a. Being underserved in the community. So you, you see, you have an idea for something that you think would really be able to help a lot of people. You should be able to. Chase that. And, Well, I think you see that in some niches, like lactation consultant. OTs who are working in pelt, pelvic health or women's health. so there, there are other niches like this outside of animals and aquatics, but. There's that one Coda that we listened to a podcast, I think about a year ago where she was the, I'm trying to remember what the actual term was, but she was working in, I think, an assisted living facility. And, she started having some older clients asking about. sexual relations. And so she became, she started a side gig. As a sexual relations consultant and helping them navigate that, in older age. And, I thought that was really interesting. How she found that niche. And was able to capitalize on it and contract it out and OTR to supervise and help her. Do the evaluations and write up the treatment plans and, you know, take, take care of all the OTR stuff. So, so she could get down to the code, the real business of coding but you can do. And, I think about the one professor that I had, I don't want to name them, but would say like, you know what? The world is your oyster, whatever it is that you want to do in this profession, you can do. because it really is across the lifespan. It's anything that occupies your time right? As your occupation? I jumped into this. Profession because, you came home and you were talking about, the mental health semester for, and I was like, wait a second mental, I thought you just worked with kids and. And then I really started looking into what OT was and I saw all the different things and opportunities and. And, and that's kind of the way I am is I get really excited about something. And then, it's not like ADHD, but I just, I see so many things that interests me that it's sometimes hard to nail down, like, all right, this is what I really want to do. And that's one of the reasons why I love OT is that it really. Opens up that door to, to chase whatever passion you may have at the moment. you can follow that. And you can find a way to use that to, to help the people that need it. Well, and I think that's kind of one of my long running jokes is that when I got too old to incorporate hippotherapy and walk. All those miles every day and, and, physically help clients be safe on the horse that I would switch to mental health and I'd still be able to incorporate the horses in. But that I wouldn't have the physical demands as well. So I mean, sneak peek preview that we're going to have an episode coming up on horses and mental health, but that, that is part of the beauty of our profession is that there's a lot of. Specialty, you can kind of make a specialty area and a lot of different ways. So I think as we kind of come to wrap up today, we've touched on, the professional. Aspect of how we work together in the role of the OTR and the role of the OTA. And then we've touched a little bit on that personal side of things. Like what it's really like working together, working with your spouse, how you might be. needing to rely on family members if you're working in a unique setting like animals and aquatics, and I think as we wrap up here, we just wanted to point out maybe some of the challenges that we faced and then some of the benefits that we've had and in our particular circumstances, yeah, specific challenges. I would probably say, it's hard because it's a challenge, but it's also. a benefit in that would be the scheduling. We have a six-year-old a three-year-old and a one-year-old. And, making sure that we're meeting that responsibility as parents first and foremost. Well, while also, Growing our business. Dancing professionally. And, it is a lot to, to juggle, But. Again, we have that flexibility. I would say maybe along with that is, because we worked together in the same business, is it. It's the same boat. And so you're either floating or sinking together. And, for other people listening, if your partner or your spouse is, has a stable job, where you can count on their income every month and what's coming in, then you might be even almost more free to pursue a particular passion area or get started using hippotherapy. Whereas for us. This is what we got. This is what we got. We got, we got to make it work and this is, this is what we got coming in for income for the month. And there, there is no. Like rely on. The other person's yeah. The other person's income that's coming in from like their employment. Yeah position. Yeah. Trying to think of other weaknesses. Well, I think sometimes, If we're ready to shut off. With the, you know, one of us may be ready to shut off with the business and the other one is still going. that can be a challenge. So we may be on different wavelengths. We talked about the benefits of blending, the personal and the professional, but I think one of the drawbacks is. Turning off, turning it off and, switching from that professional role back to the personal role sometimes. And yeah, even sometimes with the best of intentions, I think, you know, date night, And then all of a sudden we find ourselves like talking about work or the business or a client, or, that. It's just, it's just runs through our veins. Most of the time. and our, our benefits, we get to do something we're passionate about. We get to do it. With someone we're passionate about and you can't replace that. There you can't replace having, you know, your life partner with you. Doing something you love and seeing them grow and Excel and you know, really fine success in that. So I think, I think that's definitely one of the huge benefits. Yep. Yeah. And I think the encouragement that we give to each other and get from each other is that's irreplaceable. Yeah. So, thanks for listening in today. We hope that this was helpful and gives you some insight into, who we are, but also that role of OTR and OTA and how. You might be incorporating any family members into your passion project. If you're incorporating animals or aquatics into your OT sessions. And if you have any feedback on this episode, we'd certainly like to hear it. If this episode was helpful to you, go ahead and like, and subscribe to the podcast. If you could leave us a review that would really help other OTs find us. Thanks for listening. Thank you.